A Narrative for Change: Events That SHIFT Minds and Policies

Apr 6

Featuring Cara Rose DeFabio, Writer, Artist, Producer, and Cultural Strategy Director for the Economic Security Project

Cara Rose DeFabio is a writer, artist, and producer who is proud to serve as the Cultural Strategy Director for the Economic Security Project. In this role, she has invited artists into policy fights, foregrounded storytelling alongside data in changing minds, and produced events that organize people and ideas towards a more just economy. She is passionate about unwinding the deeply rooted myths of American culture through conversation and creativity, and draws on her background in theater and journalism to push new narratives forward.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

Her background in theatre, media, and events
How she got started in the progressive organizing space
Her passion for economic justice
The use of events to change minds, to change policies, and to make the world a more just place
How she and her team leverage narrative change to make an impact and help shift cultural norms
Her strategies for justifying spend, measuring the ROI of narrative change, and defining what success looks like
Overcoming scarcity ideas and pushing bold ideas forward

In this episode…

Deap-seated, interconnected challenges around injustice and inequality require novel and fortified narratives to create the right conditions to change mindsets at scale. Narrative framing, strategic storytelling, and large-scale cultural engagement chip away at the misconceptions and beliefs that are often generations old, or baked into a culture, religion, or country since its inception. But influencing opinions, policies, and behavior is a long battle, and progress is rarely linear. So how do you measure the impact or meaningful results of such efforts?

In this episode, Paige Buck hosts Cara Rose DeFabio, writer, artist, producer, and Cultural Strategy Director for the Economic Security Project to discuss events as a platform to shift the zeitgeist and social thinking around an idea. As Cara believes, when you change the story, you change the system. Events are powerful tools to shift ideas, change minds, impact policies, and make the world a more just place. Cara shares her strategies for narrative change work that makes an impact on social issues like economic security, events, and projects she’s produced in the progressive organizing space to shift conversations and the use of events to change minds, change policies, and make the world a more just place.

Resources Mentioned in this episode

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Kennedy Events.

Kennedy Events creates stress-free conferences and events, providing expert management and design for all your corporate event needs — from in-person to hybrid and virtual events.

To learn more about our services, visit our website at www.kennedyevents.com and schedule a consultation today to find out how we can guide you in making your event successful.

Transcript

Paige Buck 00:03

Hi and welcome to today's podcast episode. I'm Paige Buck partner and Chief Strategy Officer at Kennedy Events. I'm delighted to be with my friend and collaborator, and guest today Cara Rose DeFabio, a writer, artist, and producer who is proud to serve as the cultural strategy director for the Economic Security Project. In this role, she has invited artists into policy fights, foregrounded storytelling alongside data in changing minds, and produced events that organize people and ideas towards a more just economy. She is passionate about unwinding the deeply rooted myths of American culture, through conversation and creativity, and draws on her background in theater and journalism to push new narratives forward. Hi, Kara, how are you today?

Cara DeFabio 00:54

Hi, Paige, thank you for having me.

Paige Buck 00:56

Very glad you're here. So how did you get started in all of this? Where do you draw all on? What do you draw on to deliver all these things for ESP?

Cara DeFabio 01:06

Oh, wow. Well, as you mentioned, I'm a theatre kid. And I really, I really love making shows, I love making shows that get people to think and that's kind of how I got into the realm of making content, I worked in media for a while producing live events, and we collaborated on some of those that that really kind of brought, you know, what you read in at that time, maybe a newspaper or a website? Like, what? What is that? And brought them to that kind of, life to people through real events. And, and, through that, I kind of just met people that brought me into this progressive organizing space. And it's been a real, both a learning journey and a real pleasure in terms of like, how do I use my skill set to do to make a change in the world? And, and, and kind of foreground, some of the issues of economic justice that we work on?

Paige Buck 02:18

Yeah. And so we're gonna throw around some words that probably some of our listeners might not be familiar with because I wasn't familiar with them all that long ago. And I've been doing this for a long time now. So it's always awesome to be in a space where there's like, continued learning. So phrases, I hadn't thought about this for progressive organizing, and the use of events for as you just said, like changing minds and changing policy, and making the world a more just place. You used a phrase that, like, it's one of those now that I've heard it, I've heard it 1000 times, but was new to me of narrative change. Can you explain in your little bit how you think of narrative change?

Cara DeFabio 03:02

Sure. So, um, narratives are kind of deeply held stories, oftentimes myths that really kind of like a guide and shape our experience in the world. So for us, when we talk about narrative change at economic security project, when we're focusing on really trying to eliminate poverty in the United States, we look at the kind of stories that we tell ourselves around how you succeed and how you gain wealth. And so one of those myths and the narratives that we're trying to change in American culture is this. And you may have heard this idea before the bootstraps myth. So this idea that you can in the United States, you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and that there is a meritocracy. And that you can, you can achieve things through your willpower as an individual alone. And that's not true. It's just not true. There's systemic oppression and inequality that is baked in, not just in our economics and our public policy, but also in how we view the world. And so what narrative change seeks to do is to accumulate stories, of real people in their real lives, that can kind of knit them together so that they're more than the sum of their parts and that they begin to present other narratives to kind of usurp those myths that dangerous myths that kind of guide a lot of our thinking. Yeah, like

Paige Buck 04:45

a lot of the books on the shelf behind me are like my favorite works of fiction, and a lot of the books are business books that I'm sure are just riddled with every metaphor for bootstrapping, nose to the grindstone, and stick-to-it-iveness And, you know, there's also the like the exceptionalism, you know, that we are. So like, deeply baked into who we are in this country it sounds like a lot to overcome, to tell a different story.

Cara DeFabio 05:16

Yeah, and we should, I mean, we should say, narrative change is a slow grind. I mean, this is a multi-generational kind of fight. And a lot of the myths that we're talking about are like, since the inception of our country, this has been how we have been taught to think about these things, or perhaps since the inception of religion, we might follow. Like, there's, there's a lot of really deep-seated things, and it is very much the water we're swimming in. So it's very easy not to see the influence of these myths on our daily life. And so a lot of the work I do just tries perhaps through even telling the story of an individual that's impacted by these myths and systems to try and chip away at that a little bit. With every story, we tell…

Paige Buck 06:10

Yeah, and so outside of let's stay away from events for a minute, or like traditional what we mean, when we say events, outside of a convening a conference of the gala of you know, even a virtual meeting, your work is bigger than that. And so and you draw on a lot of different, like means of shifting minds and bringing different voices into the space, what are some of the other non-event things that you draw on?

Cara DeFabio 06:42

Yeah, so events are definitely kind of a tool in my toolbox. And there are other things that we do a lot to sometimes that's bringing an artist into a fight, which might be like, last year, we, we worked with an artists group called the illuminator, to project in DC, a message of monopolies must go during, like a critical legislative moment in an anti-monopoly fight. And so that was kind of an art installation slash protest. That, that, you know, we were really hoping like, maybe, maybe some Congress members are gonna see this on their drive home, you know, it's kind of like a bet there, or at least the public and start talking about it. I think that's a lot. That's another thing like a lot of these kinds of projects are to spark conversation. And, a lot of times we talk about, like how to change the kind of dinner table conversation around some of these events or some of these issues or mythologies. And so yeah, so we might work with artists directly or like in, in Stockton, California, when we were helping to launch the first mayor lead guaranteed income pilot, they're ahead of the pilot, what we came in to do is we worked with three mural lists that did murals throughout the city that really sparked the conversation so that there was a way in for people to have a conversation around what a guaranteed income could mean for their community. And so a lot of it could be arts engagement, some of the other things that we've done our like, hold a story, a creative fiction contest around what basic income could look like guaranteed income could look like in some sort of sci-fi future? Well, it was really fun. Yeah. And, um, let me see what else so yeah, a lot of it is like, how do we bring in creative space, and then a lot of it is storytelling. And a lot of it is making sure that as much as data might be foregrounded, and making policy decisions, when we get to that point that was really doing the work to bring the stories of people who are impacted by those policies to bear not just in terms of how they show up for as, as constituents stories for someone who might be in elected, who's making those kinds of public policy choices, but also in the field of public opinion. And so how do we really lift those stories up and those champions of ideas to have like a bigger, a bigger mic and a bigger platform to kind of shift the zeitgeist that kind of like, social thinking around an idea?

Paige Buck 09:30

So when you're talking about shifting the Zeitgeist and the long game, that is narrative change, what sort of pressures do you face to justify like to justify the event to justify the spend when somebody you know, in your organization or outside is saying like, Okay, what's the ROI on that?

Cara DeFabio 09:52

That's a great question, Paige. It's always really difficult, and it's specifically I would say, difficult to show How have you changed someone's mind? You know, we do a lot of public opinion polling. That's one thing we do, to see how people are thinking about and talking about our specific issues. But I think in a larger sense, how you measure or something like narrative change, I still think is highly debatable, and how much you can kind of put numbers to those kinds of returns on the investment. But there are other really very tangible ways that I think once you start doing these, specifically, these events, that are really organizing people around an idea, you'll start to see the return pretty quickly afterward. And that the way that that has worked for us, is that, you know, you can do all the numbers, you can know how many people were in the doors, like, how much did you spend per head? You know, how many, how much press pickup? Did you get all of these things? But you can also mention it, you could also measure it a little bit more like how many new things were said on stage? How much did we move forward in terms of how we're thinking about or talking about the idea, or afterward and sometimes, frustratingly, a lot of this isn't visible until after the event? Yes. However, for us, a lot of times, it'll be that we've invited a funder to an event, and through the event, they understand what the issue is, and they understand who's working on the issue. And they're much more able to fund because they're like, I get it now, like, and so we'll see, we'll see grants come in the door. Another thing is, there'll be people and we've had this at maybe most of the events, the big events that we've thrown in the five years that I've been at economic security project, who will meet at an event and they'll find a collaborator, and they'll start working and pushing the field forward that way. And so the way that we talked about events, often for our work is building the field, and what does that look like. And so a lot of times you're looking to make those introductions and those cross-pollinating kinds of spaces so that because you don't know, you don't know what these two people are going to produce a research paper on. And that could really like change the field. And so those are kind of the moments that we try to, you know, a little bit manufacture in our events, because that's where we see the greatest return.

Paige Buck 12:42

I think there's a big potential takeaway here for people who produce traditional events too. And that it sounds like your ROI, as it were, or the change that you're looking for, is sometimes, but maybe perhaps rarely linear, where the funder comes understands is now better able to make a case and fund the work. That's a pretty linear return. But collaborations and papers and, you know, opinions being changed over time, both harder to measure and harder to, as they come in sideways. Yeah, it's an indirect but very meaningful result of the work.

Cara DeFabio 13:27

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there are other things that we started doing a little bit more where we've like, recognize that like, maybe some of the messaging that were that we're putting out around our specific issues, starts to get picked up. You know, there's like a messaging campaign that we started last year. That was just more than a check that this idea that a guaranteed income, so that's like, you know, regular cash to people with no strings attached, is more than a check. It's all of these other things. It's the time you get to spend with your family, it's the freedom to make choices on your own. It's the...

Paige Buck 14:06

Dignity

Cara DeFabio 14:07

The dignity of being able to make those choices on your own. So I think we started talking about it this way. And we really kind of infused that into a lot of our events and how we talked about the issue. And, then went back and did a little bit of an earn media analysis around how much that phrase had gotten picked up as well. So I think that there's yeah, there are ways to see there are ways not always numbers, but to see how your, your messaging is kind of catching on.

Paige Buck 14:43

I'm gonna come back to this. But I'm gonna pause first and ask you about, you know, a particular event that you're really proud of, which was I also just loved the name of which was bold versus old. And did that what were you trying to do with Volvo? versus old? And then what did you actually do with bold versus old?

Cara DeFabio 15:03

Oh, yeah. Because we always know that those don't. Those are so rarely the same, there's the same answer. So the kind of provocation that we had there is that at the time, we were a single-issue organization. And we're working on guaranteed income, which is a big, bold, progressive economic idea. But what we found was that there were other big, bold, progressive economic ideas, and we were kind of getting pitted against each other. So it was like, was it a guaranteed income or a jobs guarantee, you had to pick one. And that often happens when you get to, you know, the legislative piece of a fight, because people are concerned about budget and are kind of locked into those scarcity mindsets. And so what we wanted to do with that event, was in the spring of 2019. And we held it in DC. And so what we wanted to do was kind of both inject our issue, guaranteed income into, the field of electoral politics for the year, because remember, in the spring of 2019, we had a whole slate of Democratic candidates for whatever possible presidential candidates. And we also wanted to say, hey, really, it's not like, is this big economic idea? Or this one? It's not? Or it's and, and how can we sit all of these ideas next to each other, in not so much a platform as like a buffet for whichever Democratic presidential candidate might succeed there, so that they could like see all of these ideas together. And we can have this kind of excitement about the future that we could build the kind of beyond some of the scarcity that our current, you know, neoliberal capitalism kind of confines us to so it was, like, really exciting to see all of these big ideas together, and the kind of talent and big political names that were able to draw from that. And I think, you know, I think that we had, we were pretty lofty goals to start off with. But I think we succeeded kind of beyond our wildest dreams there in terms of building new coalitions of progressive organizations that were working on some of these bold ideas. And also, and also those kinds of like that I was describing those kinds of like intangible relationships, so not just the collaborating, but for us and on an organizational level. But people who met at the event, who went on to collaborate, I think another fun thing was that we commissioned some artwork to be shown at the event, and it got turned into a coffee table book, like, there were just like, some really fun ways that we felt like there were ripples from that event that kind of still inform our work today.

Paige Buck 18:04

So when you're conceptualizing a convening, or a conference, or anything else do you brainstorm like, these are the outcomes? We would hope to see it. And these are the outcomes if we might be really, you know, we could possibly see, we might be lucky enough to see, do you spend time thinking like, how will we? How will we know at the early stages? How will we know we've succeeded, so that you can be looking for them and measuring them? Because I think that's a place a lot of folks fall down. But if it's, if it's less tangible than like, oh, we raised half a million dollars.

Cara DeFabio 18:43

Yeah, totally. I hear that. And I think benchmarks are important. And we do spend some time defining, like, what success looks like. And I also think that like, when making those goals, it's really important. I think, even in the design phase, like, you know, we sit down and we're like, who, what, where, when people start with what, and there's a reason why, who is first, who needs to be first, I think in stating your outcome, your desired outcomes or your goals, like the who needs to be foregrounded, as well, you know, so it's like, you can have all of the like, kind of what tangibles of like what you did or something. But I also think that you know, there's something that really speaks volumes when you get back the, the photos from your event, and you can see people laughing, and like sharing a moment and some drinks and food with each other. That's, that's great. It's not just a great feeling for someone who's an event organizer, but guess what that transmits a lot to funders. And it also is a memory that those people are going to have and I think those are really important and To like the foreground and how you measure success as well.

Paige Buck 20:03

So in that also in the starting with who this brings up something I know you care and lead with, with your team and with your colleagues is the idea of audience or attendee-centered design. And the experience is for that we need them to do something, the folks in attendance, we want them to learn something, meet someone hears a message that we're sharing. So what experience do we need to create for them to have the best time while they're there? And create that memory and have that laugh? And share that moment with somebody else? How do you? How do you guide other people on your team or your collaborators through a process of thinking about those experiences?

Cara DeFabio 20:53

I think that's first of all page, let me just say, that's one of the reasons, one of many reasons why I enjoy working with Kennedy events so much is because I feel like we're very aligned on that, where we can go in to a space and immediately think about what the experience of the person walking into that space for the event might be. And so I think, I think, I think really centering event design around that, who can look like a lot of different things. One, it's a lot of like, you know, the guest's consideration experience, like, design pieces. So that's like, what are you eating? What are you eating? And not just like, What are you eating? Where did it come from? Who cooked it for you, you know, like, getting all of that story into something as simple as the catering, like, can really transmit a lot to the person who's walking into the space. And I think there are other things like that too, like, you know, having gender-neutral bathrooms, having accessibility, like all taken care of, so that everyone who walks in feels welcome. And I also think that I think that there's probably something else there around like, opportunities for, input and connection, whether that's input into the actual agenda, or input in terms of raising your hand and asking you a question during a panel, or, or, you know, some other kind of audience interaction. method, I think it's important for people to feel like they're a part of it. But I also want to just say that when we're talking about the who, I think that one thing, that's, I think super key when thinking about events is organizing, is that it's not just, it's not a top-down one-way kind of street in terms of this is for the audience that's in the seats. Specifically, there's a lot of other people that this event will be impactful for and whether that's a digital crowd that's watching online and thinking about them, and, and, you know, foregrounding their experience of the thing as well. And maybe sometimes, by the way, maybe sometimes making choices between Well, if I have a digital audience and an IRL, in real life audience, like I can't do both of those worlds. So I can, I'm not going to have a hybrid event or whatever that is. And there's also the who of who's on stage. And I think that events can be super powerful organizing tools for the people who are on stage as well. And so having those people feel well cared for, from top to bottom, and that includes things like speaker prep, and, and all of the like, you know, things that you're so great at thinking about it Kennedy to which is like, you know, greenroom accommodations and, and like how the speakers are getting there, and how we take care of them through the whole process. And those can be really, those can be really pivotal moments in people's careers. You know, they might think that might be something that they're like, Oh, well, at this event, I met this other person, it could lead them down a new path of work, or could lead them down a new path of advocacy, in terms of how they speak about the other issues that are on the table. And so I think it's really important to think about, yeah, to think about, like, you know, all of the pieces of the who and all of the ways

Paige Buck 24:39

you reminded me that when you elevate somebody to the stage, figuratively, I mean, you are like, you might be enforcing for them for the first time, an idea of themselves as a person with a position that other people might want to hear it And it's a really it's a big moment to empower them and remind them of that. And they can walk away with a completely different experience of themselves that is fostered by the organization that chose to host them or hear from them. And you've also said something really powerful in there that I didn't want to lose. Oh, I was thinking as you were talking about, it's not just the people in the room or the people who might be watching remotely, but there's the knock-on effect of, of, oh, maybe I'm the, maybe I'm the CEO of this small organization that chose to send you. And, and I am to also, who, in all of this, it was my budget, my budget that justified this, that was my, you know, giving you the space to go and I need, I'm gonna get something from you coming back. And speaking of your experience, as well.

Cara DeFabio 25:59

Yeah, I love that. I love that ripple effect. And I think that that's, that is 100% part of those kinds of intangible, like, how do you measure how people walk away and start talking differently about things based on their experience? At the event that you produced?

Paige Buck 26:18

Yeah, yeah. So what, uh, you know, we did a couple of things in the fall, what's different at this moment that needs extra consideration in our middling non-post-COVID? moment and ending? We're still going through its moment?

Cara DeFabio 26:36

Yeah, I think, well, one of the things that I really have to say like, you know, the pandemics, it's been difficult for a lot of reasons on a lot of levels. And I don't feel like we're back in any way to where we were before, maybe, especially in terms of producing live events. However, I also think that people are really craving a kind of personal connection and, and talking to people maybe they've been working with over the last two years, three years that they've never met before. And I do think there's opportunity there. And I think also, it forced us to get creative about some of the ways that we're fostering these connections like there was an event that I was meant to produce in the summer of 2020. And instead. And instead, we decided, we still wanted to engage all these folks and these thinkers and get them to talk. And so we kind of structured this, basically like a pen pal situation where people, eds of progressive organizations got paired with other EDS, and they got to have like, pretty intimate exchange of ideas. And it went so well that we decided to keep meeting and eventually that's the event that we worked on, to produce this past spring of 22, where they finally got to see each other together. And so then we had this great thing where, over the last two years, some of these people had been writing to each other and never met in person. And so that magic when they finally get to meet, just I mean, you can't, we can't replicate that like that. You can't.

Paige Buck 28:23

That's too beautiful. I love it. It's like it's it makes me think of dating myself here like getting your college roommates' names and phone numbers before you went off to school. And you only talked on the phone. And you discussed who was going to bring the fridge and who was going to chip in for the toaster oven or the hot pot. These were the things and then you met a thing of beauty. Yeah, yeah. How does the real how that analog to live experiences anymore because we're all like this, we're all able to on Zoom, really, really powerful? So with the time with the very limited time we have left, I'm curious who else in this world and in this space, do you admire or look to, or learn from?

Cara DeFabio 29:12

In terms of the kind of narrative shift work that I really love doing. And the National Domestic Workers Alliance is really just lightyears ahead else for my money. And they're so good. They're in writers' rooms and Hollywood. They're organizing their base and taking those stories and elevating them to places that I'm sure no one thought that they would ever go. And they're so they're doing that all the way from their kind of base to, you know, being invited to the White House to be influencers on key policies that affect caretakers. So I feel like they wrote the playbook in a lot of ways and I really appreciate How they're willing to follow a story no matter where it goes. And kind of ground there are people.

Paige Buck 30:08

And we're going a little long. And so we're getting, I'm going to say and so we're getting interrupted. But I remember you talking about the National Domestic Workers Alliance and this writer's room thing sounds so powerful to me. It's just really creative thinking to affect change. And yes, I can see why they would be. They'd be so admirable. That's really cool. I feel like I learned something exciting and new every time I talk to you. And so thanks so much for your time today. Yeah. Thanks so much for your time today. Kara. Where can people where did would you prefer people find you and find your work?

Cara DeFabio 30:47

Oh, um, you know, I have a website. It's Kara Rose to Fabio. If you just Google that you'll find it. And economic security project is the organization I work for. And you can see a lot of my current work there.

Paige Buck 31:03

Fantastic. Thanks so much for your time today.

Cara DeFabio 31:06

Thank you.

Ready to Learn More About What the Kennedy Events Team Can Bring to Your Event?

The KE team excels at incorporating opportunities to delight at every stage of the event planning process. With a clear roadmap to event success, we champion our knowledge, resources, and connections to ensure your event goes off without a hitch. Whether you’re planning a live, in-person event, something in the virtual realm, or a hybrid with virtual components, our event experts are here to guide you. Schedule a 30-minute consultation with us today.

PAIGE BUCK

Paige Buck is the co-owner of Kennedy Events, a large-scale event management company based in San Francisco, Los Angeles, and New York City. Our team creates stress-free conferences and events with a positive impact, which allows our clients to resonate with their audience. Kennedy Events specializes in producing flawless product launches, award ceremonies, fundraisers, and multi-day conferences while keeping our eye on retention and engagement goals.

About Kennedy Events

Kennedy Events began with one goal in mind—to produce high-level corporate events with just as much strategy as style. Maggie founded the company in 2000, found her match in Paige, and in 2011 the two became official partners. Since then, these two resourceful and brilliant creatives have pooled their strengths to build one one of the most the most sought after corporate event companies in San Francisco, New York, and Los Angeles.